H4n discussion

[Chris]

I got an email from someone who found one of my recordings at archive.org.  He's now a member here.  I thouhgt our conversation might be of interest to others so....


Wickedrebel:
I'm a local NC guy, video producer/concert taping enthusiast... Just
purchased a Zoom H4n, and I checked out your recordings on
archive.org. Sound great, just wondering if you were using the
built-in mics on your H4n?

I'm living in Cornelius now, know of any good shows coming up? Check
out this music video I made for an NC bluegrassy band, Big Daddy Love.
Maybe we can link up and record some shows together?

<a href="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4357178&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA" target="_blank">http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4357178&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA</a>
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Me:
Hi XXX,

Thanks for the kind words... not sure which recordings your talking about.  Some were done with my H4 and some of my recent ones were with the H4n.  I LOVE MY H4n.  The source line should tell you whether I recorded via sbd, matrix, or mics.  I don't yet have any recordings up that are strictly H4n built ins though I have an entire festival I recorded last week that were and sound GREAT from about 30' from stage.  I'm yet to track those sets.

Not sure whether you found my email through archive.org or through my website but you might want to check out the link below... lots of Carolina shows from some of the best tapers in the region.... also we love videos at our site.  From what you describe you absoultely NEED to be a part of the Carolina LIve Music Society... we're a non-profit dedicated to live music in the Carolinas.  I am one of the directors.  Check it out and I think all of your questions will be answered and you'll find it a very useful source for live music :)

I enjoyed the video very much... props man!

Let me know what shows you listened to and I'll try to give you the specific sources...

Peace...
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Wickedrebel:
Hey Chris-

I beat you to it! I never knew about that site before I saw your email
address from archive.org. I checked it out and I'm amazed! Great work
over there.

Hope you don't mind, I posted my music video in the forums over there
too, maybe help get my friends some more local exposure.

The show I was asking about in particular from archive.org is the
Yesterdays Gravy on 4-25-09. Sounds great, just couldn't really
understand your lineage, whether you used external mics or the
built-ins. How well does the "auto" matrixing work with the H4n? Is
there any latency? What about ease of mixing each channel live and in
post? I'm so excited to get the H4n, I can hardly stand it!

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Me:
I'm gonna move this conversation to the Tapers Corner at the site so others can reap the rewards.

[Chris]

Yeah you did beat me to it...  thought you might like what we have going on over here..

The Yesterday's Gravy (btw I have and will be upping the latenight show from the night before as well as Spring Fling) you speak of was 60% sbd / 40% H4n mics.  Since upping that I've found some phasing that's mostly due to me using Sound Forge instead of WaveLab (I don't and won't use Cubase for my needs).  I think I've been able to correct the problem by reversing the data for the mics track during the mix.

I don't use external mics at all unless I'm taping at the Double Door.  I bought the H4 (and now H4n) for the simplicity.  I don't claim or want to be considered a "professional" taper... I bought a "disposable" all in one because I want to be able to have recordings of the shows I attend that our other tapers aren't at... I let the "pros" do the work when they're around.  I have too many things on my plate to worry about expensive mics, preamps, etc.. unfortunately it seems that I attend more shows than they do or better said our paths do not cross as often as my addiction for reliving shows will allow so walking in and being "good to go" with the H4n is a dream come true :)

IMO you made a great choice... be careful of the mic stand adapter... screw it the wrong way and it breaks but besides that I love my purchase for three and a half bucks.

I dig how the "auto" matrixing works... one track for the built in mics and another for the line ins.  Then all you do is mix the two together in post.  When clocked both tracks are identical in length which is great for me since I use Sound Forge and am limited in what I can do to mix down.  Meaning I can't bump back and forth to get perfect alignment

You can't really mix everything together live and I recommend that you set all your levels to about -12 and adjust up on post... that was a recommendation by our staff archivist/ taper extrordinaire, bhadella and he was right... the mix becomes very simple this way.

Hope that answers you questions... if not let me know and I'll take another stab at it :)

[Wickedrebel]

Hey Chris-

Thanks for the reply, very informative! I'm a Mac man, so all my post will be done in Soundtrack Pro, which I find to be one of my favorite audio programs I've ever used.

My H4n should be in next week and I can't wait to try her out.

Can you explain what you meant by "phasing" and what should I be looking for to avoid it in my recordings? All of my previous attempts at matrixing have been from SBD's and Video Camera Mic's. I'm not talking about Best Buy consumer video cameras, I'm talking $5k-$10k cameras, which have pretty stellar microphones. No telling how many times those camera mics have saved me when my SBD source wasn't up-to-par.

And, why do you use externals at the Double Door?

[digiburn247]

Now that you have numerous hours with the H4n, I assume that the mic diameter is 1/4" how do you like the sound quality?

[Chris]

What I meant about "phasing" was some "slapback" I was getting... as if things weren't synched right... when they were.

I use externals at the DD for two reasons:

1) If bhadella is taping I'd rather let him grab the stage lip + sbd...
2) sbd only at DD rarely comes out very nice because of the size of the room.  Many times all that's coming of the board is vocals.  Using the externals I get a nice ambient sound

digi - I think Wicked just got his the other day and is giving it a first try this weekend... according to an email he sent me.  As for me... I LOVE my built ins. I just put up The Mantras from Guardian Angel Jam... you tell me.  I also recorded Herring, Keel, and Neighbor's Acres with my internals only... will put them up sometime soon as other examples of the h4n mic quality.

[digiburn247]

I will give a listen and give some feedback.

[digiburn247]

Was all of the Darfurfest captured with it?